by The Brothers McLeod

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AN INTERVIEW WITH MYLES AND GREG MCLEOD

Back in 2006, Myles and Greg McLeod created the initial episode of Fuggy Fuggy, which was hastily snapped up by MTV. It featured a plucky ninja working his way through a series of outlandish training exercises. The comedy was sharp and the style was undeniably unique, with elaborate cross-hatching, a boiling line and the signature brown-paper backdrop.

A year later, the two conspired to create a second installment of the Fuggy Fuggy series, this time doubling the length, and again offering it to MTV. The animation technique remained the same, but we were also treated to more elaborate, frame-by-frame animation. This is surely one of the elements that landed Fuggy Fuggy 2 in the top five of The Flash Animation 10, but it’s the comedy that makes us beg for that 3rd installment (series? feature?).

CHF conducted a thorough interview with Greg and Myles on the topic of Fuggy Fuggy 2 back in early 2007, but much has happened since, so we sat down again with the dynamic McLeod duo…

AARON SIMPSON: Congrats on launching the new website. How long has that been in the works?

MCLEOD BROTHERS: It’s been in construction for about a year. Barney at Spark & Zoom Productions did a great job on it. It took so long because we were so busy last year and it kept getting moved down the list of priorities. We’ve still got a few more films to put up but we are very pleased with it. We wanted visitors to have an easier time finding and watching the films we’ve made than the last website. We also wanted a blog where we could put up our thoughts and post events and news in one place. Hopefully we’ll be adding comment functions on the films eventually too.

AARON: Do the two main characters in Fuggy Fuggy have names?

MCLEODS: The little Ninja is Fuggy Fuggy and his master is called Shakoom. Their own names are the only words that each character speaks.

AARON: A great number of static images in the film are created with a boiling line. How do you create this effect?

MCLEODS: Each image is traced 3 times to create the effect. It really works for this style of animation, and this length of animation too. It adds a kind of vitality which is part of Fuggy’s personality.

AARON: Did you create storyboards and animatics for the film before setting Tracy Bartlett loose on the animation?

MCLEODS: We did very rough storyboards but no animatics. We’ve posted a few of the storyboards on our blog. We do create animatics when we’re doing animation for clients as it helps smooth the way through the process, but sometimes we like to skip this step in our own work to keep things more instinctive.

AARON: Have either of you practiced a form of martial art?

GREG: I did Judo and Karate as a child but got bored and moved onto playing the drums. Not sure if that’s classed as a martial art though.

MYLES: I went to a few Jiu Jitsu classes at Uni but quickly realised that on the balance of probability I was more likely to be badly beaten in a Jiu Jitsu lesson than by a mugger which rather defeated the whole point of it.

AARON: You’ve recently doubled-down on your original animation work - committing to an increased focus on these projects. What can we expect to see in the next year from you two?

GREG: I am making a 5 minute short film at the moment due for completion this summer. It’s great to get back to animating our own projects again and it’s the best work I’ve done to date so far. We’ve also got a short, web-based series in the cards. Our big thing though is a 30 minute film/series pilot which we are writing at the moment. It’s something we’ve wanted to do since we started and we’re in a position now to put it together. We’re also putting together some pitches for children’s series, hoping to ride the wave of the success from our input into Pedro & Frankensheep.

AARON: ….which recently premiered on TV. Are there more episodes planned?

GREG: That’s all top secret, but watch this space. However Pedro did sneak into the latest episode of Doctor Who - it was on telly in the background in one of the scenes.

MYLES: As the voice of Frankensheep, I was listening to the Doctor Who episode going… Wahoo! I’m on Doctor Who!

AARON: You guys also supplied the music for Pedro & Frankensheep. How is that you’ve cultivated both careers? Animation and music?

MCLEODS: We’ve both been in bands since early teens so music has always been part of what we’ve done. In the beginning we did all our own music partly because we couldn’t afford anyone else. But we also just love going into the studio and putting together a song. It’s just another creative process where you take an idea and carry it on through until you have a finished polished product. The beauty of music compared to animation is that the process is much quicker and that can help sometimes, especially when you’re involved in a long project and you need that creative closure on something.

AARON: You’ve both written for PS2 and Wii games - how is this different than writing for linear shorts or TV?

MYLES: Writing for computer games is a totally different process. In the work I’ve done so far, I’ve come in when the production company had already developed the storyline and concept. My role has been to write the cut-scenes between levels to make the story work, but mainly it’s writing thousands of lines of dialogue that can be used in the different levels of the game. Last year I worked on a SpongeBob SquarePants game which was great fun because I love that show. It was great to get the game for my Wii and hear Tom Kenny and the rest of the cast reading my lines.

AARON: Can you offer updates on any of the projects you mentioned in your 2007 CHF interview? Super Charlie? The feature script?

MYLES: Super Charlie never really got off the ground for one reason or another. Nothing’s ever wasted though. The feature script has been on hold (the funding to work on it is still there) just because of the amount of TV animation writing I’ve been doing. I’ve rewritten the treatment for the feature which is now quite different from the first draft of the script I wrote a couple of years ago. I’m hoping to start work on it after I’ve finished the script for our new 30 minute pilot. The great thing about all the TV work is I feel more confident as a writer now I’ve been working professionally for a couple of years. I think the new version of the feature will be better for having been left on the shelf for a while. I’ll be able to come at it fresh and with more experience.

You have to wonder what’s behind all these successful brother-duos in online animation. We’ve got Evan and Gregg Spiridellis (JibJab.com), Mike and Matt Chapman (Homestar Runner) and now Greg and Myles McLeod (Spark and Zoom). The creative process can be a rough one - with egos getting beat up a bit, but perhaps with two brothers it’s a lifetime of working through problems and conspiring that serves as the underpinnings of great creativity.

But Greg and Myles, otherwise known as The Brothers McLeod, have gone a different route than JibJab and Homestar Runner. While they host shorts like The M Man on their website, they’re leaning on partners to help spread the word. For Spamland they used YouTube, and ended up on the homepage. For an unannounced, upcoming series, they’re working with the BCC, and today they’re trusting Cold Hard Flash to help introduce the second episode of Fuggy Fuggy to the world. That’s right - a Cold Hard Flash exclusive! Of course, Fuggyfuggy.com will be the official online home with MTV footing the bill on TV, but without further adieu….

Fuggy Fuggy 2

AARON SIMPSON: When did you two start working on Fuggy Fuggy?

GREG MCLEOD: We started in the summer of 2005 with the first film being released online on December 21st, 2005.

AARON: Was there anything in particular that inspired the project?
GREG: We wanted to make something that would have a wide appeal online and that seemed to mean a Star Wars spoof or something with ninjas, we went for the latter. It was partially inspired by Bruce Lee films, Japanese monster movies and the Muppets.

MYLES MCLEOD: Greg’s sketch books are full of illustrations, and sometimes one in particular seems extra special, or seems to have a life of it’s own. Greg had drawn this little ninja character and had done a few comic strip panels for himself to develop the character. He had a different name to begin with, but then I came up with the word “Fuggy” – don’t ask how – and it seemed to fit.

AARON: Did you always intend Fuggy Fuggy to be a series?
GREG: We had it in the back of our minds but we wanted to see if the first one was a success. When it went well we decided to make a second.

AARON: How did you end up teaming with MTV?
GREG: Myles is writing for a BBC series called Frankenstein’s Cat (editor: due on BBC in September of 2007) and the executive producer Jackie Edwards put us in touch with a company called Wiretown who got us the deal.

MYLES: The deal is an international one (not US though). In fact I had a text message from a friend whose on holiday in Russia – he said he saw it on MTV out there. That’s great.

AARON: What can we expect from Fuggy Fuggy over the next year or so?
GREG: That depends on whether it goes down well on MTV. We probably won’t make another on spec as they take so long to make.

AARON: How long did the production of this second Fuggy Fuggy episode take?
GREG: It took 6 months.

MYLES: The first one took about 3 months with two animators. The second was one animator - Tracy Bartlett, so it took longer. Tracy wanted a challenge so Greg and I wrote the battle sequence to be quite complex – that’s where most of the time went in the making of it. In fact the battle sequence had two other scenes but it was just going to take too long to make as they were very intense scenes. Maybe one day!

AARON: Greg, do you still sketch on paper, or have you transitioned to an all digital process?
GREG: Still loving the paper, I have a healthy doodling habit and all my designs for characters and layouts all start on paper. I usually use an ink pen as it gives a great line and gets me covered in ink.

MYLES: From my point of view as the writer and co-director it’s great to see Greg’s visual mood and tastes change. We like to move around styles and try new things. At the moment, Greg’s getting into crayon again. Just like being kids again!

AARON: What software do you lean on during the production of a Fuggy Fuggy episode?
GREG: Fuggy was all hand drawn then scanned and the scenes composited in Flash. Flash is my main tool; I never had any conventional training and Flash allowed me to get going and I still swear by it. It suits the way I work, it’s intuitive and fast. I use Final Cut to edit and After Effects to add film effects, etc. All the sound is done in Pro Tools.

AARON: What’s your studio like?
GREG: I have a studio at home. I can’t animate with other people around - I just get crabby with them. Our main studio is an old coach house with views to the Malvern Hills. I tend to do meetings there and all the sound.

MYLES: I also work from home. Writing is best done where it’s quiet I find. The view from my window is Meon Hill which has been a site of habitation since the Iron Age – it used to be the site of a Hill Fort, but now it’s covered in trees and farmland.

AARON: How does your collaborative process work?
MYLES: We use the Disney concept of an ‘Ideas Room’ quite a lot – not that it’s actually a room for us. We have a part of the creative process where we just say that any idea is allowed without censorship. That way we’re not curtailing our own creativity. The process of criticism comes later.

Also a lot of what we do is comedy based. We generally only allow a gag through if it makes both of us laugh. Just one of us isn’t enough.

GREG: We tend to work together at the start of a project. During the ‘ideas’ process we’ll brainstorm and get loads of stuff on paper. Then once the idea is pretty tight, Myles will do a treatment and I’ll start designing. Then Myles does a script and I’ll storyboard. The it’s me animating, Myles tends to do most of the voices with me doing the odd one. Then I do all the soundscapes, editing and sound FX. Myles always acts as another pair of eyes and ears throughout.

AARON: When did you both first know you wanted to be professional animators?
GREG: When we were doing it, we never expected to make a career out of it. It started as a hobby and then all of a sudden we had a commission and off we went.

MYLES: I knew I wanted to be a Policeman at the age of 3. By 13 I knew I wanted to be a Doctor. At 16 I was heading for Veterinary Science. At 21 I wished I had a Green Card so I could be a Forest Manager in Mount Hood Reserve. Next week I’ll want to be a photographer or a balloonist.

There was a cartoon series I watched a lot as a kid – Mr Benn – about an everyday normal chap that went to a magical shop and tried out being all kinds of crazy roles - a pirate – a caveman – an astronaut. I think that’s the thing about being a writer – you can be whatever you want to be for little blocks of time, especially in the world of animation where you can go anywhere.

Mr Benn - The Ballonist (pt.1)

AARON: How did your relationship with Aardman Animations begin?
GREG: They spotted Fuggy Fuggy online and in an article in Imagine Magazine.

MYLES: We went to their big party bash last year at Bristol Zoo. It was a fine affair and fun to visit the zoo again – I used to live just around the corner and you’d hear the lions roaring in the evening - a strange sound considering you’re in the middle of a UK city.

AARON: Can you tell us anything about the project you guys set up with Nickelodeon?
GREG: It’s called Super Charlie and Super Lauren, two sibling superheroes. It’s early in development but we got the deal on the strength of a pilot we made 3 years ago.

MYLES: Super Charlie is one of those animations that kids and parents seem to love – it’s fun, a little irreverent and just plain silly. It was first seem at the Bradford Animation Festival 2003. A few people expressed an interest but Nickelodeon were really keen on it. We’re looking forward to see how it turns out.

AARON: You’re currently writing a feature script - what’s the story about?
MYLES: I’ve written a first draft of a feature script – it’s an Arthurian Road Story. I’ve taken the old Arthurian tales and then retold them from a different point of view. I now have some funding from a Lottery Script Grant to write a second draft with the help of a script editor. The film isn’t an animated idea, but Greg and I do have plans to write a feature length animation – hopefully with some money from the Film Council’s Development Fund. We’ll see!

AARON: Can you tell us about your animated series The Tiger Lounge?
GREG: It’s on hold at the moment due to other commitments. It’s very close to our heart though as it’s one of the first things we ever made and it’s due an update.

MYLES: Greg has done some excellent new concept drawings and we’ve written a script. We’re looking forward to making it when we have some more time in our schedule!

AARON: How do you think advances in online video distribution has effected your careers?
GREG: It’s enabled more people to view our work and get our name out and we’ve been approached by several broadcasters as a result.

MYLES: I think it has made it a thousand times easier for commissioners to find out (a) who we are and (b) recognise that lots of people like what we do.

AARON: Your first Spamland short was featured on the Youtube homepage in 2006. What was that experience like?
GREG: It was nuts. We’d only just put some of our stuff on Youtube and then bang we were featured and we were getting thousands of views. The comments were fun as well - either ‘wtf’ or people loving it. Then arguments breaking out between the people who got it and those that didn’t - it was hilarious. However this was the best comment.

AARON: Are there any more Spamland shorts in your plans?
Yes - we have another one in the pipeline. It’s all down to time. We’ve got a massive project on with the BBC at the moment (can’t say what yet) and that’s taking up loads of time.

AARON: What would you say to animators currently studying animation?
GREG: Just tell stories you want to tell and keep making stuff and showing people. Don’t be shy about approaching broadcasters or festivals, make good stuff and you’ll get noticed.

MYLES: I’d say make sure you study story as well as the art of animation. A well made animation with a crap story is disappointing because you see the potential and see that it’s been wasted.

Many thanks Aaron - Greg and Myles

No surprises here - Fuggy Fuggy is making the leap to TV. In fact, it’s MTV, and everyone’s favorite animated Ninja will begin broadcasting in January. Let’s celebrate with a new short titled Fist of Fuggy.

Want to know what cellphone content will look like in the future? Look no further than ‘Fuggy Fuggy,’ a bite-sized series by The Brothers McLeod featuring a pint-sized hero. Recently featured at Drawn! and scripted only in the language of Fuggy, our hero flounders his way through a series of attempts to be more ninja-like.

You should also check out a Christmas-themed Flash short Greg and Myles created for Esky.